Under estimating the enemy is the biggest mistake in war. As Kenyans push their failed government into retaking Migingo island from Uganda’s military, it is important to reflect on the strengths of the enemy.
Ready for combat: a Ugandan soldier
Kenyans still believe that today’s Ugandan military is the same rag-tag guerrilla force defeated by Administration Police in Western Kenya back in the 1980s. The reality is very different.
The Uganda Peoples Defence Forces (UPDF) is a battle-hardened outfit of at least 45,000 soldiers well armed with artillery, tanks and combat aircraft. The Kenyan military consists of roughly the same number of personnel spread out across the Army, Navy and Airforce but without combat experience.
Since its birth as the National Resistance Army, the UPDF has engaged in fierce warfare within and outside Uganda. UPDF has put down almost all the armed groups that roamed Uganda after the overthrow of Idi Amin in 1979. At the moment, war is raging against Joseph Kony’s Lords Resistance Army (LRA) but the bulk of the fighting is in the Democratic Republic of Congo after the UPDF chased Kony away from northern Uganda and Southern Sudan.
The UPDF has fought in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo where it vanquished rebels of the Allied Democratic Front (ADF). However, the UPDF was sucked into the Congo wars where the United Nations accuses them of looting Congo’s abundant minerals and timber. At the moment, the Congolese Army (FARDC) has joined the UPDF in a joint operation against the LRA. UPDF aircraft have fired explosives into suspected LRA camps though the rebels had already deserted the outposts.
UPDF is part of the African Union Mission to Somalia (AMISOM) where, together with Burundian soldiers, they have helped sustain the Transitional Federal Government against the onslaught of insurgents. In Iraq, retired UPDF soldiers have gotten jobs as security officers in the US led coalition.
In contrast, the Kenyan military has not engaged in major combat operations since the Shifta Wars of the 1960s – 1970s. Shiftas were bandits fighting for the secession of the Somali-dominated North Eastern Province. Since then, there has not been any rebel activity in Kenya until the Sabaot Land Defence Force emerged in 2006.
Kenya Army trucks crossing a flooded river. Picture by the US Army.
Operations against the Sabaot Land Defence Force (SLDF) were the first counter-insurgency experience for Kenya’s military since the Shifta Wars. However, the conduct of the Army certainly did not win hearts and minds for the government. The operation was so ruthless that accusations of human rights abuses are rife. People were abducted from homes and tortured because of mere allegations of supporting SLDF.
The Kenya Army dubbed its successful anti-SLDF campaign “Operation Okoa Maisha” (Operation Save Lives) but locals have described it as “Operation Haribu Maisha Kabisa” (Operation Destroy Lives). It is said that so many men disappeared that Mount Elgon District is now dominated by women, who are either widows or caregivers to broken men.
Back in the 1980s, the Administration Police fought back several incursions by Ugandan soldiers. This time though, Kenya’s armed forces may not be up to the task. Infact, the annexation of Migingo Island and the growth of piracy on the Indian Ocean are proof that all is not well with our national defences.
Recruitment into the forces is marred by corruption and political interference, meaning that the calibre of recruits is very low. Qualified candidates are shunted aside in favour of those willing to pay hefty bribes to recruiting officers. Even after joining the forces, promotions in the hierarchy are heavily influenced by corruption and ethnicity.
The situation in the police and prisons services is reportedly worse than in the military. An investigation into Kenya Prisons found that female officers had to sleep with senior bosses in order to get promotions. In the Kenya Police, traffic police offices collect bribes from drivers in order to fulfill a daily quota imposed by their supervisors. Those who fail to deliver their targets are transferred to less lucrative postings in the rural areas.
Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni has sent the UPDF to all of Uganda’s neighbours except Tanzania. Museveni is a calculating, former rebel leader who exploits weaknesses in his neighbours to expand Uganda’s influence. With Kenyans divided on ethnic lines and ruled by corrupt leaders, Museveni must have realized that this is the best time to strike.
By occupying the small island of Migingo, Museveni was testing Kenya’s political and military defences. Next time, the catch will be bigger and it will be too late for Kenya to defend itself.
Filed under: Analysis, Politics | Tagged: administration police, corruption, kampala, kenya, Kenya Army, lake victoria, Lords Resistance Army, LRA, migingo, mwai kibaki, nairobi, Uganda, uganda peoples defence forces, UPDF, yoweri museveni
We in Uganda do not see ourselves going to war with Kenya. We have much to lose even though am sure we would beat you black and blue. By the way the Kenya army is only 24,000 (CIA world fact book)
The c.i.a world fact book you quoted is as ancient as the T55s and other weapons in U.P.D.F inventory.The new fact book puts kenyan forces at 45,000.Besides,kenya also boosts 32,000 combat trained A.Ps police who are the first responders to any threat.They are the ones that beat uganda in late 1980s and ill tell you nothing has changed since.The same 32,000 police will beat 60,000 uganda army infantry just as they did then.we in kenya knows that in today battle field,what wins wars is not the number of infantry men.instead it is the lethality and efficiency of the troops which is attained through the best training and equipment.thas why we chose to deploy a small highly trained, equiped and well financed force that is second to none.without being guided by my stomach,i will tell you here and now that our well thought off offensive and defensive strategies if unloaded against our brothers in uganda will amount to total annilation of our brothers.let me give you some real talk:uganda has fought Kony bandis for 20 + years to no success.Kony boys are gumboot thugs poorly financed and not equiped at all.Kenya has wiped out such outfits in hours.Uganda has no airforce and the few migs they received from libya bear no impact against the best airforce in east and central africa (Kenya).We in kenyan forces do not need our armor to face ancient uganda t55s and t62s.our 50 air carvary battalion was constituted in response to influx of soviet tanks in this region.the 35 well armed gunships will in no more than 72 hours clear this museum modules.it was just declassified that u.p.d.f had to call kenyan experts to help them dis-arm a bomb that they mistakenly armed…………..and these are the inexperienced bandits we are supposed to face?it also got declassifed that kenyan jets have violated ugandan airspace over and over to test their air defences and by the time they notice anything on the rader the jets are long gone.i urge you not to feed your ignorance and lack of knowledge.we in the department of defence knows that uganda is like a house of glass.we see right inside and a stone can bring it down. our highly classified covert operation gives us an edge about what is happening right in ugandan command and control network. its a sad state of affairs for those without knowledge to talk of millitary matters.Mu7 and kibaki are old guards who sniff each thers behind and wag their political tails without biting.This means that kibaki will let mu7 occupy migingo and in turn come to his rescue if need be.I promise you if mu7 behaved the same way with moi,the likes of spartan would be in moi torture chambers right in kampala.Or for that matter if mu7 behaves the same in future!
Hi am a Kenyan who greatly disagree with this report. Kenya armed forces training is one of the best in the world and Ugandans will never in a 10000000000000 years defeat Kenyans……..by the way we are not 24000 we are 60000 and getting stronger.
true to the point..
Years of embezzlement of public funds have now resulted in total helplessness…a point where greed and corrution in the people entrusted to run the country means our national security is at stake…A country of economic scale like Kenya is supposed to be armed with at leat 500 tanks and 100 fighter Jets…We are very unsafe currently…extremenly unsafe….we dont have equipment to wage a desicive war…….Nobody should lie to kenyans that the army is secretive and purchases are done secretely…BIG LIE….military and Govt men have been eating the money….I am from Eldoret region and I can tell from the way the barrack there is so dilipated and Ugly that money meant for our security is beeing eaten by some big men somewhere in the army and Govt and endangering the country………Now Museveni…who Is very intelligent has seen that Kenya is realy weak…..and he has decided to abuse us….for sure..it is NOT about the Island or the fish…IT IS STRATEGIC…HE HAS A MISSION…..HE IS INTIMIDATING us..and he knows that our military is at the weakest…….Kianga and his cronies just want to stay in Runda and have the good life….smooching their women…..they are scared to hear gunfire and see blood……that why they call a press conference and say that a terriotorial issue is work of map makers…….
It is on notice that Museveni once said that some countries are afraid of hearing the word “Army” ..apparently he was reffering to kenya…
Its Just too bad…..Kenyans are so annoyed to be Insulted and with an Army that can do nothing…They paid to protect us even against Satan Himself!!!
Now..About our equipment…is it Not a shame that the attack aircraft that we have was last purchased in the 70’s….Big shame…..to those in position of responsibility…Are u guys serious about our security???
The 76 tanks that we have are nothing but old Junk….who will save us from this mess….what if Uganda actualy attacks…..
Uganda fighting Kenya will be the beginning of the end of Museveni. May be and i say be Uganda army is more equipped and battle hardened than the Kenyan counterpart but i don’t think you Uganda will win a war against Kenya that easily. Most of the goods going to Uganda at the moment pass through Kenya, if by any chance Kenya block that route, Uganda will be in trouble, big big trouble. So in that case a long and extended battle could end up being won by Kenya in the account of the Kenyan position.
But one thing is for sure Kibaki will not risk going to war with Uganda. Museveni bailed him out during last years post election’s chaos and may be Museveni needs something in return. But that might not last for long..if by any chance Raila becomes the President then we might as well see Uganda vs Kenya war.
I AM A RETIRED SECURITY OFFICIAL. HAVING SERVED THE KENYAN PEOPLE FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS. YES THE CURRENT POLITICAL REGIME IN KENYA IS THE MOST CONFUSED AND INEPT. HOWEVER I CAN ASSURE ALL THAT THE UGANDAN PEOPLES DEFENCE FORCE IS NO EQUALL TO THE KENYA MILITARY AND SECURITY ARSENAL. TWO WEEKS OF ENGAGEMENT WOULD BE A LONG TIME TO WAIT FOR THE KENYAN FLAG TO BE HOISTED IN KAMPALA STATE HOUSE. BY THE WAY, IN 1987 THE UGANDAN FORCES THAT HAD MADE INCURSIONS INTO BUSIA WERE DRIVEN OFF BY THE BATTLE HARDENED RECCE COMPANY OF THE G.S.U AND NOT THE ADMINISTRATION POLICE. MORAL IN THE KENYA SECURITY FORCES IS GENERALLY HIGHER THAN WHAT WE KNOW OF THE U.P.D.F. IN ADDITION, KENYAN WILL GET INTO SUCH A BATTLE WITH A CLEAR CAUSE AS OPPOSED TO UGANDANS WHO ALL KNOW IT IS JUST ONE OF THEIR LEADERS DIVERSIONARY TACTICS.
Mzee Majimbo, I don’t know which Kenyan Army you are referring to and which UPDF you are talking about. More powerful armies than Kenya have dreamed of marching into Kampala ( Sudan, Angola, Chad, Zimbabwe, DRC and even Rwanda) Ask those armies about the true UPDF.
If your army was that strong Uganda would not be in Migingo. The only thing we need is fuel. Bullets, landmines, shells are manufactured in Uganda, or you thought kenya is the only country making bullets (you don’t make landmines). We know all about you and your weaknesses and political confusion. Did you know we have enough weapons and men to launch another front from Somalia. Let’s face it, you are powerless and Uganda will leave Migingo the way we came. By the way, I also think it is your island but am relishing the humiliation and powerlessness you feel.
ANYBODY WITH THE GUT TO SAY THAT AN EXTENSION OF A BANDIT MILITIA WHICH IS U.P.D.F CAN BEAT KENYA ARMY IS FEEDING HIS WILDEST ILLUSIONS.THOUGH KENYA ARMY CONSIST OF ABOUT 45000 WELL TRAINED AND DISCIPLINED SOLDIERS,WE NEED OUR 32000 A.PS(POLICE) WHO ARE COMBAT TRAINED AND FIRST LINE OF DEFENCE TO FACE BANDITS.OUR ARMY SHOULD ONLY BE USED AGAINST A WORTH OPPONENT WHO DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS REGION.THE STRATEGY OF OUR FORCES IS TO DEPLOY A SMALL HEAVILY EQUIPED,WELL TRAINED,ABSOLUTELY LETHAL FORCE LIKE THE ONE DEPLOYED BY ISRAELIS AGAINST 6 MILLION ARAB ARMIES.OUR STANDING ORDERS STIPULATE HAVING A FORCE THATS STRONG NOT TO FIGHT WARS BUT SEND CHILLS IN THE SPINE OF OUR ENERMIES AND SO AVOID WARS IN THE FIRST PLACE.THE BEST ARMY IS THE ONE THAT WINS WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.NOW MR.SPARTAN,YOU SEEM OBSESSED WITH THE NUMBERS BUT DO YOU KNOW THAT IN 1982 FALKAN WAR BRITAIN WAS OUTNUMBERED 60 TO 1 BY ARGENTINIANS?DO YOU KNOW ISRAEL WAS OUTNUMBERED 10,000 TO ONE? INFACT UGANDA HAS A LARGE FORCE WHO ARE INFANTRY MEN OR FOOT SOLDIERS WHO ARE POORLY TRAINED AND ILL EQUIPED.IVE NEVER SEEN A SITE THAT REFERS TO THEM AS PROFFESIONALS OR REGARDS THEM HIGHLY.ANY SITE THAT IVE READ HAS HIGH REGARDS FOR KENYA ARMY.TALKING OF LAND MINES,THATS AN ANCIENT(NEANDERTHAL) WAY OF FIGHTING WARS.INFACT MODERN ARMIES DONT USE MINES.INSTEAD,MODERN ARMIES ARE DOING EVERYTHING TO DE-MINE OLD MINES LEFT BY ANCIENT ARMIES.KENYA HAS THE BIGGEST SCHOOL OF DE-MINING WHERE RWANDANS ,BURUNDIANS AND ERITREANS ARE LEARNING TO DE-MINE.ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT POLITICAL TAIL WAGGING BY KIBAKI IS WHATS SPARING MUSEVENI OTHEWISE NOTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE U.P.D.F WAS BEAT UP BY OUR POLICE.ONLY UNTILL RECENTLY DID UGANDA HAVE A DECENT ARMY ALMOST A LEVEL OF REMOTELY BEING CALLED PROFESSIONAL ARMY AND THEY ALREADY LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.WHEN THEY FOUGHT BANDITS IN CONGO AND ELSEWHERE,THEY RAN AWAY FROM REAL ARMIES OF ANGOLA AND RWANDA.THEY CLAIMED BEING OUTNUMBERED WHICH IS RIDICULOUS.
REAL TALK,THE 6 MIG 24 THAT UGANDA HAS AND AM TOLD ONLY 1 IS COMBAT READY IS NO MATCH FOR 50 MD500 HELICOPTERS GUN SHIPS IN THE KENYA AIR CALVERY DIVISION.EACH MD 500 CARRIES 4 TOW MISSILES FOR KILLING TANKS.THE 7 MIG JETS THAT UGANDA ACQUIRED FROM LIBYA IS NO MATCH FOR 30+ F5s AND 7 HAWKS IN THE KENYA AIRFORCE.THE T62s and T55s IN THE U.P.D.F IS NO MATCH FOR KENYA ARMY T72s and MARK 3 TANKS.REAL TALK,KENYA ARMOR DIVISION HEAVILY OUT GUNS UGANDA BY A MARGIN OF 20 YEARS.IN KENYAS DEFENCE MODULATION AGAINST UGANDA, KENYA ACQIRES COMPLETE AIR DOMINANCE IN 3 HOURS AND UGANDAS ARMOR OF OBSOLETE TANKS AND ARTILLERY IS WIPED OUT IN 48 HOURS.KENYA ARMY FLAG IS HOISTED AT KAMPALA STATE HOUSE EXACTLY 72 HRS SINCE COMMENCEMENT OF HOSTILITIES.I WUOLD LIKE TO INVITE SPARTAN TO LOOK AT THE WESITE OF KENYA ARMED FORCES AND SEE WHAT UGANDA IS UP AGAINST.UGANDA LOSES BIG IN ALL ELEMENTS NEEDED TO EXECUTE A WAR.ON TOP OF THAT KENYA DEFENCE BUDGET IS BIGGER THAT UGANDA,TANZANIA RWANDA AND BURUNDI COMBINED.NOW GO FIGURE.
Lest I forget, you are really not counting on Tanzania to deny Uganda access to their ports for fuel, are you? They also must be itching for a fight that would humble Kenya. And in case you did not know, Uganda does not import any arms through Kenya. How can an army which was recently disarmed by warriors by Somalia be a threat to Uganda?
A MONTH AGO UGANDAN SO CALLED SOLDIERS WERE WASTED BY THE POKOTS.THEIR GOVERMENT DOES NOT EVEN PROVFIDE ENOUGH RATION TO FEED THEM THEY HAVE TO STEAL CATTLE FROM POKOTS.THE INCIDENT YOU ARE REFFERING TO WHERE SOMALIS TOOK WEAPONS FROM A SMALL KENYA ARMY POST IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I TALKED ABOUT ABOVE.THE KENYA DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE(D.O.D) GAVE THEM 48 HOURS (IF YOU FOLLOWED THE STORY) TO RETURN THOSE WEAPONS OR FACE THE WRATH OF KENYA ARMY.DID YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED?THEY RETURNED ALL WAEPONS AND AND BEGGED FOR MERCY FROM THE D.O.D.WE ARE SO OVERWHELMING WE WIN WITHOUT FIRING.YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY THAT KIBAKI IS YOUR PARTNER IN CRIME.
Majimbo, M7 has been smarting since GSU whacked his boys in 1987. So, like a true Field Commander, he regrouped and learnt his lesson. He’s rebuilt his Officer Corps, his armour, and other deterrents. But as Sun Tzu asks, what’s to be gained in the end??????!!!!! Hitler made a good push for Stalingrad but in the end Moscow could not fall into his clutches. So Spartan, true the UPDF as the Wehrmacht has battle-hardened men, but in the end the army of 1941 was not the army of 1942 (less than 1 year)!!! What’s it all for???? Glory??? Peace??? Expansion??? Oil???
It is laughable that Ugandans are beating their chests in readiness for combat with Kenya. It has taken Uganda decades to wipe out a small millitia group called LRA, it took the Kenya army just two weeks to clear SLDF, a much bigger and organised outfit. Thats going too far, lets be realistic Ugandans, a man called Paul Kagame humiliated Museveni in Congo with an army of less than 1000 men without the basics of war. Then the other day Kenya assisted South Sudan to acquire millitary hardware against international. What does that tell you about Kenya and its strategic preparedness? What I am saying is that incase Uganda make a silly move to attack Kenya then it will be the end of Museveni and his desire to rule East Africa.It will for sure be a bloody regional conflict as Rwanda, South Sudan and Burundi wont sit back. As for Tanzania coming to the rescue of Museveni, I doubt. Remember your country’s history. And what has Tanzania to offer in terms of millitary power anyway? Let me finish by making it clear to Ugandans, you dont have a navy, we do. We dont even need the army to deal with UPDF. Our GSU and AP’s are a contigent enough to fly the Kenyan flag at Nakasero.
Men you all make me laugh, Uganda army can beat the Kenya army black and blue the way spartan puts it, but if Kenya can only acquire 5 F16s new ones and replace the current Kenya army personnel with Mungiki, Chinkororo and Taliban, then Museveni will be peeing on his pants after 2 days he will be beging for forgiveness
With Raila on the throne Museveni cant cough, With Kibaki there Museveni is making merry, He could have been finished long time ago if we had people like moi.
I will be entailing myself into arguments with people who do not understand security issues if i over engage too much in this discussion. But as an eye opener, i invite those in a deep illusion to consider the following. 1) study the declared weoponary of the kenya armed forces and compare them with the outdated arsenal of U.P.D.F (the info is on the internet) 2) what is the moral level in U.P.D.F? it takes U.P.D.F to use A.P.Cs against the kenyan pokot tribesmen. how many kenyan security personnel have ever defected to uganda? How long has it taken U.P.D.F to fight Kony and yet the battle is not yet over?? what is the logistic support efficiency of U.P.D.F? with the large uganda army how much do you spend per soldier per year compare that with kenya(look at the militarybudgets of the two countries) why does it take uganda moving A.P.C.S to centre of the capital because of a small security or terror alert?( because you are a very insecure lot). 3) most uganda army equipment transits through kenya is a fact you cannot run away from. capabilities of this weopons are part of doctrine training for the KENYA security forces. and i insist that alot of the weopons held by U.P.D.F ARE VERY VERY out dated. 4) what is the sevicability of ugandan airforce fighters? Are aware of the real K.A.F capabilities? 5) can U.P.D.F face an orgarnised army????????? so far if they have any victories it has been against rag tat armies. that does not make U.P.D.F soldiers battle hardened. whom were they fighting in D.R.C???? REMEMBER they had to withdraw in huff when the angolans appeared!!!!!!!! what happened when they faced the rwandesse army???? M7 HAD TO NEGOTIATE HIS WAY OUT OF THE potential embarasment. 6) kijana how long can uganda sustain a war? you may be too poor to last an intense war that exceeds three week of serious combat. Kenya despite the political problems has sufficient resource to put a sustained intense attack which will see us establish military presence in Kampala in less than two weeks. that is the truth. By the way landmine production is not a factor in assesment of military prowess.modern nations are moving away from Production and use of landmine. The fact that uganda is busy producing such items which are clearly banned under a U.N declaration should be a testimony enough to confirm that the weopons you are proud of belong to the meuseum. The battle phases with kenya will be as follows 1) within 5 days kenya would be incharge of your airspace and a more than half of your old tanks and artellary would have been destroyed. kenyan ground forces would be half way to your capital city.meanwhile entebe which is strtegic to uganda would have fallen and the G.S.U together with other elements of the kenya police would be engaged in a mop up exercise in that town. 2) by day 10 kampala would be in our sight and the remenant of U.P.DF would be in total retreat while a large number would have either defected,desrted or melted into civilian population. ugundan politicians would be pressing the international community to effect a cease fire. 3) by day 14 kenyan troops will be taking coffee made in kenya in Kampala.
thanks majimbo .u have taken ugandas behind the burn and told them the truth that their goverment has denied them.
and i forgot to let you know that U.P.D.F has never won a war??? study your history properly . all their military escapades have resulted in negotiated pull out upon realisation that they stood no chance of holding ground. remember M7 ACKNOWLEDGED THAT Uganda was backing and training FERA AGAINST KENYA. where is FERA?????????? it took kenyan police and intelligence to flash them out of their bases inside Uganda. Meanwhile Kony remain a thorn in your flesh!!!!!!!!! Kony has existed for a period in excess of 15 years. Good manuverable armies fight in an intelligent manner .
Bravo Majimbo. And “mkenya”, you should research the capabilities of the T-72s, you’re obviously didn’t pass in “strategy”!!!
And what they are doing to our people in Pokot will be repaid with interest!!!
The idea that the U.P.D.F IS BATTLE HARDENED IS A FALLACY. At its best, the assertion is based on very false premises. Ask the seasoned Uganda soldiers most of whom keep defecting to Kenya and were proffessionally de-briefed and they will tell you that it is clear to the old ugandan soldiers that the day M7 attacks kenya , that will mark the end of his rule. Dont boast of your peace keeping mission in somalia. this adds zero to the c.v. of U.P.D.F. Fact is that because of not being considered a proffessional Army, the united nations has never invited uganda to contribute soldiers to any peace keeping mission. Kenyans will fight a modern warfare. not old one which relays on digging holes an placing in mines. If anything you should know that the Kenya armed forces have and are operating an international supported centre Which trains forces from all over the world on De-maining. the centre is based at embakasi in nairobi.
Without the use of A.P.C and bigger calibre weopons, i doubt that U.P.D.F infantry would be effective against the pokots. it would just be a repeat of the fight against Kony
Kenyans have a reason to be worried….I think we will be overrun….Check out this:—
If the data is wrong…please correct me with data..
KENYA
Product Quantity
AML (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 72 Select
BTR-60 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 3 Select
Carl Gustaf (Grenade launcher) 56 Select
Ferret Mk 1/1 (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 12 Select
M3 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 10 Select
Mk 3 (Main battle tank) 78 Select
SALADIN (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 3 Select
SARACEN (Infantry fighting vehicle) 5 Select
Shorland S52 (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 8 Select
UR-416 M (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 52 Select
UGANDA SIDE:
Product Quantity
9K11 Malutka/AT-3 Sagger (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 20 Select
BMP-2 (Infantry fighting vehicle) 31 Select
BTR-40 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 20 Select
Casspir (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 70 Select
M-114 (Towed howitzer) 82 Select
OT-64 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 4 Select
PT-76 (Light tank) 20 Select
T-55 (Main battle tank) 20 Select
ZU-23 (2A13) (Anti-aircraft machine gun) 5 Select
where has the money been going? Is there a security strategy for Kenyans..or the chaos of other Govt arms is also in the military…
Do we have someone informed to explain to us..
thanks.
twitter.com/nairobilive
I am a serving Officer in the rank of Colonel in Kenya Armoured Corps. Iam pained at the level of ignorance and stupidity being expressed in these pages on matters intricate and complex by civilian-type smart-alecs without the vaguest understanding and knowledge of these matters. Francis Majimbo speaks Military, from personal knowledge and experience. The short word is kenya will not wage war on Uganda on flimsy grounds as a worthless piece of real estate which previous to the CHGS in Kampala served as a strategic smugglers den for years. The Kenya Armed Forces Standing Operation Strategies are formulated on the simple principle of Clear and Present National Interest. Each year, each new class at our War Games Schools spread all across the Country review and update detailed and precise War Plans against all manner of real and imagined Enemies of Kenya, Uganda included. And for years in all these simulated War Games, Kampala effectively capitulates in 72 to 84 hours from the onset of Hostilities. International Pressure soon thereafter bring this theatre to a close.
I want to state categorically, and I invite the UPDF to present contrary opinion, that the Uganda lacks an effective large-scale fighting army, the UPDF being primarily a political tool of projecting means of violence to cower an impressionable population. Like Majimbo aptly puts it, the UPDF has never been seriously tested with positive results, and largely has faced disorganised, ill-equiped, ill-trained, ill-led, ill-motivated rag-tags units in Uganda, Sudan and Congo. The UPDF lacks the means to rapidly deploy aggressor units, lacks any credible anti-armour capacity, lacks mobility of a fighting mobile armoured force, lacks an air-borne dispersal capability, lacks an interceptor air-arm, has no air bombardment capacity, has a very poor command-communication ability, has no credible Intelligence / reconnaissance Capacity, in fact can be likened only to the grossly over-rated “Gum-boot” Rwandaise Army with their near similar capacities to the Kenya GSU and the new Kenya AP RDF.
I can go on forever, as this is essentially what I do for a living – analyzing the threat matrix, daily, and the complex numerous appropriate responses. If you are not Military, I would suggest you keep your offensively ignorant comments on Military matters, altogether to yourself.
Asante
Leave alone even the weaponry, the physical fitness of our Kenya army is even in great doubt with three quarters of them weighing about 120 Kg and above, due to the cheap beer and free food that they drink and eat in the barracks as they entertain beautiful women.
I’m 100% convinced that our traffic police can even do better when it comes to close combat if given the opportunity, compared to our army.
I recently talked to one of the army officers, he himself confessed that Museveni only needs one week and Ugandan flag will be flying at state house, our army is only playing lip service, they are boasting of good military training and better equipments but no action, it is a shame to hear a whole general talking about our territory being grabbed as a non issue, our army can be compared to a professor in Kenya with a Doctorate Degree in Mechanical engineering boasting about his wealth of knowledge and qualifications, while the person has never even repaired a bicycle.
SHAME ON THEM, OUR OLD 7, F 5s HAVE NEVER EVEN FIRED A SINGLE SHOT, THEY EVEN LACK PINPOINT ACCURACY. TAKE THEM OUT OF THE BARRACKS AND DONATE THEM TO MANGU HIGH SCHOOL FOR LEARNING PURPOSES.
The information posted on the arms for both sides is not correct. The data for Kenya army is fairy old. Atleast 10 year or more old. If you check on very current websites the Kenya army has not only more current weopon but moral and fitness of the troops is described as very high. Check for the information from the various military stategic studies institutions , you have to be a registered member. Moral of the ugandan army is on the other hand not rated very positively. Looking at the above arms, i agree with francis that the arms on the ugandan side are inferior to the kenyan ones. A little internet based research will tell you that the M.B.T held by uganda are very old post W.W 11 . Havent you read about fighter aircrafts aquired by Kenya? What about the T 72 M.B.T.? what about the 50 air calvary attack helicopters?
In military assesment it is not the quantity of weopons that count. To get a fair assesment one has to evaluate capability of the weopon, sevicability and the ability of the force to efficiently deploy the weopon effectively in a combat theatre.
The lead article above talks about U.P.D.F fighting rebels in eastern D.R.C ? Does U.P.D.F have any experience in fighting an orgarnised army ? The answer is No. If it is rebels the kenya army has a history of destroying such groups albeit in a shorter duration than U.P.D.F.
The political situation in U.G is worse than what you may think. U.G is a defacto one party state with state institution yet to recover from years of misrule and dictatorship. Only one man makes decision in a country where the president ,his son and lately the wife occupy positions of influence. I am not sure that such a thing despite our current political mess can be accepted by Kenyans.
Lastly ,take my word, If even in his dreams, Museveni thought that he has a chance of taking over kenya, i can assure you he would have done it yesterday . The current bubble in migingo if simply a diversionary tactic by museveni to keep you away from the real issues facing uganda.
We know this man too well.
Ask yourself how did a newspaper in Kenya publish what was otherwise supposed to be a secret plan by the ugandans to take over migingo? (operation restore sanity) . There are many ugandans in high places who offer Kenya a lot of information regarding the political, military and economic situation in uganda on a day to day basis. U.G is too transparent in the eyes of Kenya.
Of the many weopons listed as belonging to U.P.D.F above, between half and one third are non operational due to poor mantainance an lack of sparepart.
A fact not mentioned so far in this discussion is that the U.P.D. airforce is simply a disfunctional group that would be at pain to fly a half a squadron of any mixed type of fighters. Uganda does not have any creadible air defence system. Who will protect its skies ? who will provide aircover for your ground troops? before you know it the little armour you have will all be history.
Practice a little bit more with rebels in the north, disorgarnised rebels in D.R.C, somalia militias, then improve your airforce and air defence system, sought out your politics by moving away from dictatorship, improve your economy so that you have more money to keep your armed forces better and establish cheaper import route/source other than Kenya then you will be men and women enough to attack Kenya. Then museveni will attack without being motivated by the desire to divert the attention of ugandans from internal challenges.
Also take my bet, Museveni will leave Migingo the same way he came and those who will question his action to leave will be fryed.
Thanks for the Insight…Though I feel that Kenya beeing the economic superpower should realy do more with the military…especialy to detter the Northen Neighbours mainly Ethiopia and Sudan…Just in case of anything over the Oil rich Illemi Triangle which could be the main source of conflict…I highly doubt if the T-72 tanks were for kenya army…Unless Kenya intends to assist South Sudan in 2011 militarily so that we get our 9th province ..otherwise..I think they belong to GOSS..who are preparing for the worst…They have the oil money…
Mkenya. I am a soldier in the Officer Corps of Kenya Armed Forces. It really would be advisable for you to seek out freely available information to better inform your comments on matters as serious and complex as Military. My assurances might not count for much to you, but nonetheless I will state here that each of the threat matrixes you mention and others you are unaware of are subject to serious studies and simulation in our Defense College, Combat Schools and other Officer Training Schools of the Kenya Armed Forces. Some of the Simulations are carried with friendly foreign Military Forces. For instances, the KAF has real-time Air-Combat training using Soviet era Jet-fighters and Bombers that are in use in Ethiopia, Eriteria and Sudan against our main-line Fighter intercepters and Air-defense Forces. Similarly, War Games in Kenya simulated a host of Possible Hostile actions from each of these Threat Matrixes, and the real-time response of our Defense Components detailed for facilitate reviews / studies for each class and subsequent classes. We are prepared as well as we can without going into a “General Mobilisation” which is what usually indicates full preparation to Armed Conflict.
As concerns your expressions of the T72, your doubts have no substance or fact and may have been influenced by all the disinformation and propaganda generated by Kenya Armed Forces( and with Western backing) precisely to avoid upsetting the Military Balances precipitiously. You must know that the world’s traditional Oil-fields are soon depleted and the rush is on for new sources of energy which unsurprising bring Africa (and East Africa) into focus. The large Oilfields in Northern Kenya have remained unexploited because of a cleverly engineered insecurity situation planted as the colonialists were leaving Kenya, and which was designed to ensure Kenya remained a reserve source of hydrocarbons when the Saudis ran out. And this applies to Somalia (which has the largest off-shore oil reserves in Africa) and Congo ( which has not enjoyed peace since independence from conflicts that defy reason). Kenya needed to break this Colonial Crucible to bring these immense Natural Resources to bear in the development of our Nation – hence the huge rearmament of the past 6years ( from the East!!) involving approximately USD400Million each subsequent year. The T72 you quote are therefore just a piece of the puzzle that has been quietly put into place earlier before British Interests intervened with the hijacking of the MV FAINA.
Please seek information and you shall be better informed.
Asante.
Those looking at the ugandan arms as displayed in some websites need to do a little more internet research.
If you visit the more authoritative sites they will have a note to the effect that most of the tanks and other arms held by uganda are unservicable. in short they cannot be deployed for war with kenya.
Please take your time and also do a weopon by weopon research for each side and you will discover for example the t55 tanks are not only outdated but they are inferior to mk3 by far.
War is never the best option when it comes to conflict resolution. todays war over territory is likely to recur many generations to come.
Kenya army soldier are unfit??? that is not only a lie but a statement loaded with total ignorance. does the un think they are unfit? no . when they appear for military parades do they look overweight? certainly no. If the kenya military was unfit the un and au would never involve them in dengerous peace keeping missions as was in kosovo,seira leon , ethiopia mozambique e.t.c. one creteria for such missions is discipline which i can tell you is a rear commodity within u.p.d.f.
Uganda is only trying to convince the world that its troops can be part of un missions through engagement in somalia.
any one with imagination that the small uganda contigent in somalia can launch an offensive against kenya is not sensible. first the somali s will not allow you and if you try they will engage you to your peril. second the ugandan goverment has no way of offering logistic support to such troops third those troops are not equipped to launch any offensive. uganda finally does not have the resource base to fight two wars at the same time. that is engage rebels in drc & kony, engage a proffessional kenyan army and keep peace in somalia?
Avoid war and war mongering it is the only way forward.
also read on the internet the ugandan army recieved a donation of 100 trucks from china. alas !!!!!!!! trucks are so basic that if a donar thinks that is what you need then you have a serious problem. you should be able to afford basics for your soldiers. what else should we wait to hear??? so and so has donated military boots to u.p.d.f to replace gumboots which they use.
I think i agree with mr francis uganda has never won a single war. what we read is sparadoric wining of battles. faced with rwanda , a small tiny country u.p.d.f was crushed. M7 had to negotiate his way out.
War stinks !!!!!!!!!!!! war is bad !!!!!!!! let us work for peace. forget about battle hardened U.P.D.F or kenya police G.S.U. recce company . let us use this forum to discuss how we can work together for economic prosperity of both countries. May God give all of you some wisdom. I retired from the army having been in 2 U.N peace missions and hence having experienced first hand the devastating effects of war. pray for peace. work for peace. and economic prosperity.
thank njuguna for giving these people the advice. wars only damages whether kenya or uganda wins the facts remains that there will be l;oss of live. it better for eastafrican communitry to come up with one strong economy.
Bravo Njuguna. peace is what we need and not useless wars. infact kenya should spend less of its money on military. I am told that we have a pact with the brits. that is why they keep a number of bases in kenya? any information on this??
Truth is that all arms listed for U.P.D.F are unservicable.
when did you last see a fighter plane fly over kampala??
T 55 are very old tanks and the ugandan ones have never been upgraded.
what army from uganda will then fight Kenya when they dont have the basic arsenals???
As predicted in the forum Uganda is on its way out of migingo.
Sun tsu say the wise general is one who wins a war without firing a gun.
Jane defence is an authority in military matters. May be those with wrong impressions should read its reviews on the capabilities of the kenya and uganda military.
As for servicability of wepons, uganda military can hardly fly a fighter aircraft. most (upto 60 %) of the t-55 are basically scrap metals .
Much as i agree that war is a shamefull act, i state that it is a complete illussion for any person to imagine that u.p.d.f stands any chance against a proffessional army like the kenya military.
Well as i have indicated before we are talking about war with Uganda over Migingo, a 1 acre island in lake Victoria full of stones…what utter nonsense!!! It doesn’t matter who is president, war is something you get into once everything has failed and you’d be a fool to think that all that is published on the internet is the true status of our armies capabilities. And why would Museveni want to attack Kenya? I mean with all his excursion to other countries how much land has he been able to add to the surface area of Uganda? Museveni knows what Kenya means to his people and even the history of Kenya in getting him to power so all this talk of military capabilities is just a redundant conversation.
And just because we never display our military hardware doesn’t mean it doesnt exist.
Majimbo, Majimbo…… What now will you write so ferociously about? Remember I told you Uganda would leave of its own accord! And stop quoting Sun Tsu’s ‘Art of War’ all the time-it’s becoming sickening and repetitive. It makes you sound like an amateur and wannabe intelligence officer. You are wondering how I know too much about you, huh? It’s because you make it so simple. That said, let me throw some light on the fallacies you have thrwon around.
1. UPDF MVs are unservicable. Give it up to them then for using such MVs in DRC, Sudan, Northern Uganda and Somalia. Or did you mean the whole UPDf are engineers in addition to being soldiers.
2. Uganda has never won a war. Now, which war have the Kenyan boyscouts, yeah, you heard me, boyscouts won? They have never seen battle. Do you sincerely expect 24,000 boyscouts to confront a 60,000 battle-tested army?
3. Uganda was beaten by Rwanda. I don’t think any analyst would put it that way. Listen, Uganda was outnumbered 3:1 by Rwanda (most of the Ugandan troops were around Gbagolite at that time). But still we held our ground and were not disarmed like the Somali militias did to 400 Kenyan troops in 1998. Can you imagine. In the UPDF you lose your gun you are as good as dead. No real soldier gets disarmed. At least you die like the Ugandan troops who were surrounded for 4 days by a Rwandese brigade and did not give up till they were all wiped out. Rest In Peace.
4. Kenyan Airforce is a threat to Uganda. Tangu lini? Angola and Zimbabwe had superior air forces but did you hear them wreak havoc on the gallant UPDF? You do not need an airforce in the Great Lakes to win a war. You only need an advanced anti-aircraft system. Example: Before 1995 sudan used to bomb Northern Uganda and South Sudan with impunity. do you know what wiped out their air superiority? In Jan 1997 they lost 02 MIGs and an Antonov. You wouldn’t know. So bring on your junk airforce.
5. Uganda has never been invited for peacekeeping missions. Really? Uganda had troops in Liberia and now Somalia. by the way it is not just the UPDF who are invited but also Uganda Police. Our police is in Darfur, Serbia, East Timor and African Union is paying Uganda to train the Somali Police. Where has your brutal police ever been invited Majimbo?
Who is the chiken now. Lakini Majimbo!!
Museveni should stop taking jokes too for the moment he l see things out of hand it wll be too late , lest the paliament declare a state of emmergency ,thas the time You poeple will see wonders and for your information Regarding museveni funny talks our N.Y.S comat is enough to silence him, leave alone the Army, we should think of the Army the moment our flag is in Kampala
After through research ive realised that UPDF is one of the low rated armies in Africa.
Angola, Zimbabwe and Rwanda this are armies with no basics of war, Museveni should not thumb his chest, i dont think he will survive if he attacks Kenya. President Kibaki likes diplomacy simply because they are partners in fish business , With Raila or Moi as presidents mambo ingekuwa tofauti kwa Uganda, ask yourself why has Museveni decided to attack Migingo when Kibaki is the president, these two men are simply playing business politics.
Spartan how many minutes did it take the Kenya police to drive away the U.P.D.F at the boarder in 1986. Uganda is not an organized army. Please note The Kenya navy has even the ability to launch missiles from Indian ocean that can hit Kampala.
Spartan it only took the action of the Kibera residents to force Museveni to lower the Ugandan flag in Migingo. It will take another two weeks of blocking Ugandan goods and Museveni will have no choice.
It takes only 30 minutes for Turkana warriors to invade and defeat a combined force of UPDF and karamojong warriors armed with old T 55 tanks.
In Africa Kenya is rated 6th among the best millitaries in Africa, Egypt leads and others follow in the following order, south Africa, Libya, Morocco, Nigeria, Kenya and Tunisia.
Apart from almost 200 new and serviceable T72 tanks that Kenya has, in its inventory it has 60 M1 Abraham tanks, and we are not counting the T 55 which are obsolete anyway.
The total Kenya army personnel currently totals to 45,000 all well trained in modern warfare. Spartan your data i think is obsolete. According the defense talk.com, Kenya Military is one of the most secretive armies in the world acquiring most of its modern weapons from Britain and United states its also in the process of purchasing another war ship which the deal is yet to be finalized, therefore understanding it is hard, no wonder we are the superpowers in East and central Africa.
Spartan it took Israel in 1967 six days to wipe out a large Arab army comprising of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Palestine, therefore war is tactics.
Kenya has several ways of beating Uganda if it wants, it can simply decide to support and arm Kony, and im very sure a UPDF is no match to a well armed Joseph Kony. Kenya has even the capability to arm South Sudan, its even arming and training the Uganda Military what does that one tell you.
Spartans speaks like an idiot, from all sides of his mealy mouth. He tries to goad response, but making outrageously personal digs in his commentary. There is no substances nor facts in his submissions. He should be ignored to go away altogether.
Lets look at a classic Operations Plan for threat Uganda.
Three weeks to get Assets into place on Jump-sites along the Border, Stock-piling of stores and ordnance, marshalling of transport, armour, completion of Air-serviceability, brushing up of operational plans, etcc..
D-Day
Persons in our Military will attest this presence of oil in Northern Kenya from personal knowledge of the evidence. And our War Games have components that include full-scale defensive operations in the north from invasion by Ethiopia, Sudan, and Somalia. Because African Wars are proxy-resources conflicts, to exploit the Northern Resources demand a capacity to defending them – and hence the recent aggressive build-up of our Armoured Division, our Anti-tank Air Calvary capacity and robust Ground Support Air-wing, and strategic Combat interceptor Aircraft. Does the T-72 saga clarify now? Uganda on the other hand has a military philosophy informed by a charactor of a “bandit-king” who shot his way to power using a discordant, rag-tag, brutish guerilla force, which has yet to evolve beyond the intimidation of the Civilian Population with its monopolistic propensity to mindless Violence. The “bandit-kind” has resolutely strangulated all other institutions of state and governance, and become the State himself, propping himself up with a whole politico-military edifice nurtured by a veritable Bandit-culture of raiding and pillaging all around the edifice! This explains the failure of Uganda to defeat the LRA by might or by reason despite 20 years of a internecine war – the National Interest is never the motivation of M7 and his cabal. Sadly, this monumental disaster is being actively replicated in Rwanda as the entire world wallows in the shame of its failure during the 1994 Genocide! What a horror our Africa is being turned into by the Western Countries in their mad quest to dominate our Natural Resources for their interests!!
Poor Kenyans, they are faced with hard economic times and an uncertain political future, they cant understand how Uganda is getting ahead of them in every field, You would be well advised not to provoke the UPDF because contrary to what people on this forum have been saying the UPDF is miles ahead of you and it would take less than a week for Nairobi to be turned into Kibera.You see, i think i know the reason why you have all those problems, i think its to do with the fact that you are aver electing Handsome presidents!!!! Kibaki, Moi, mrs kibaki………..
Iam a Ugandan raised or schooled in Nairobi in my primary and secondary school life. I later joined makerere in the early 90’s.
This is what I wish to say:-
1. War is a shamefull act.Uganda and Kenya must never go to war over anything leave alone NOTHING.During the hard times in Uganda history,it is in Kenya that many Ugandans got refuge.Today’s generation must be taught and reminded of past genorosity between the two countries.
2.Many Ugandan’s have some sort of bitterness and hence a dislike of Kenya.Current Uganda Leadership,though itself a beneficiary of Kenyan support,has done little to calm the prejudices against Kenya.
3.Kenyan economy is strong. Ugandan economy has shown remarkable improvement. I am currently a resident of U.K. I am also a frequent visitor of the two countries Uganda and Kenya. What I can state is that without the petrol dollar, it will take atleast 20 years of hard work for Uganda to be where Kenya is today. Take the cities of Kampala and Entebe for example, this cities have only recently started doing sewer systems. All major towns in Kenya have had sewer systems for close to 40 years. The same cities in Uganda do not have orgarnised residential estates. Nairobi is developing into a metropolitant with carefully designated and developed residential estates. When will Kampala have large residential estates, satellite towns within the town like westlands,rongai,buruburu ,eastleigh. How many universities does Kenya have compared to Uganda. What is the size of Industrial zones in Uganda compared to Kenya. Finally what is the annual budget of Uganda compared to Kenya. There are many examples that I can cite but it is needless.
5.As for matters Military, as a clever Ugandan reasoning with my head as opposed to emotions,I totally agree with the expert opinions by the two Kenyans above. U P D F stands no chance against the Kenyan armed forces. I recently read an article in quoting the the U S state departments assesment of the the terror threat in east africa, the article inter_alia gives a very positive review of the kenya military compared to U P D F. The article states further that the Kenya Military had aquired a good number of upgraded F5’s and that the Americans have been Involved in regular training and joint exercises With kenya military. I know for a fact that an airforce that is effective is essential to a execution of an effective war. Let as admit that U P D F hardly has an airforce. Information available on reliable websites such as J D and several others including even Indian,attest that Kenya military is far too advanced compared to UPDF.
6. Brothers,what do we stand to gain with a stupid war?. Is such a war worth?
7. Let us invest in our economies. That is what we should grant our kids.
Niva,
This world is better because of guys with your streak of thinking. Think of the wisdom of integrating ang unifying our armies. Not only would an east african army raid the region of alkhaeda, mungiki, kony, etc but would be an employer and a source of security for trader and exloitation of narural resurces
Niva u spoke like an intellect.am a kenyan but my wife is Ugandan. having got my medical degree from Makerere i would like to maintain contacts with colleagues in Kampala and even my kids should b able to visit.goin to war wil ruin this.bt am afraid M7 is takin jokes too far,most pple agree migingo is kenya’s.tht includes Ugandans,sovereignity of a country is somethng nt to b taken for granted.God bless us all.
Don’t all of you Kenyans just love Niva? Personally am not sold on the idea that he is Ugandan. Why? Just check his grammar – typical Kenyan i-mainly-use-swahili-forgive-my-grammar English. Same for Tom ole Nkarei, he can not begin his own name in capitals even if his life depended on it. And boy, do you have time – I admire your willingness to recite all the terminologies you’ve ever heard. As for your personal attacks on me, no offence taken.
Surprise, surprise. Am not impressed. No amount of classwork and military drills can prepare you for a real conflict. Ever wondered why the USA can not stay 30 years without war, they need to test their equipment and mental preparedness. Call UPDF a ragtag army for all you want. It does not change a thing. We are not scared of your army. You can attend all the courses you want and defeat Uganda on paper 1,000 times. Now, this is absurd – did you say in 3 days you would be in Kampala? First put your house in order and lose the confusion in your leadership.
Tell me one thing though. Does the definition of professionalism of the army in Kenya mean staying in barracks when 1,500 people butcher each other and 400 troops surrendering their arms when surrounded by untrained Somali militia? What is the use of your army’s ’simulated war games’ if you can not rise to the occasion when Uganda ‘invades’ Migingo and Pokotland? What are you paid to do, in short, stay in barracks and polish your shoes?
Next time I want you explain to your readers MARTIAL LAW and when it comes into effect.
As for the UPDF harrassing Ugandans, I have news for your, we are not complaining. I can assure you more Ugandans have been harrassed and lost property at the hands of the Kenyan police than the UPDF.
And please stop proclaiming for all and sundry how you are either a serving Kenyan officer or retired for that matter. It denigrates your uniform. In standard armies, no soldier or reservist is allowed to utter what you just did unless he is the official spokesperson of their army. Even after retiring, as in the USA’s case and Uganda, you do not utter statements like Majimbo and Tom ole Nkarei until after 20 years (classified information is declassified after 20 years so whatever you say after that will be public knowledge anyway) Or do you think you are so anonymous on this blog. 20 dollars and 24 hours later I can get your real names, the ISP provider you used and the IP address of the computer used. So please begin to think like a real security officer if at all you are one.
Pray that this debacle ends peacefully.
Spartan,
I am a Ugandan like yourself and I want to declare my total support to you for defending the republic from uncalled for attacks from misguided kenyan elements.
The Kenya army is nothing but a bunch of softies who are a very unnecessary burden to the suffering kenya tax payer. The only times they have come out to do anything remotely resembling war is when the kill civillians like the did during the 1960s-1970s while hunting the shifta bandits. In 1984 you all recall the great massacre in the NE province in Wasagalla. Over 4,000 innocent Somalis were rounded and killed. This great atrocity has never been investigated and justice is yet to be done. If ICC was existent by then a number of Kenyan leaders and military officials would be facing the fate Bashir is facing now.
Lately thousands of civilians were massacred in Mt. Elgon.
The Kenya army for all its purported strengths is just a barracks outfit being fattened like pigs in a sty. The last thing they would like, is to be called out of their enjoyment and comfort zones to come to war with Uganda or any other outfit.
The other bit I know about the kenya army is that they like and can only manage soft military operations like peace keeping. That is why they fight to be deployed in UN peacekeeping ops.
The current problem kenyans have with uganda is related to the disbelief they have that Uganda is now a much more stronger country than theirs. Most kenyans were brought up with the false belief that uganda is weak and poor and that kenya is the big brother!
if the Migingo conflict was with Tanzania or Ethiopia no Kenyan would be calling for war. But because it is with the percieved weak Uganda every coward is demanding war!
The point of strength the kenyans believe they have over uganda is that they will close the border. However this is a double edged solution that will affect Kenya as much.
In the event that the lucklustre Kenyans impose war on uganda they should be ready for total war. The UPDF does nor depend on fuel for war. it did not reach Kinshasa and Gbdolite in trucks – they walked all the way. They can also walk upto Mombasa. be warned!
WHAT YOU SAY HERE IS WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO THINK.UGANDAS ECONOMY IS AT LEAST 20 YEARS BEHIND KENYA AND THE REASON WHY YOUR ARMY IS CONSIDERED INFERIOR TO KENYA ARMY IS BECAUSE ITS A COMBINATION OF A BANDIT MILLITIA FROM MU7 REBELS AND CHILD SOLDIERS WHO YOUR GENERALS RECRUIT.AS FOR TANZANIA ,THEY CAME TO KAMPALA IN DAYS BUT IN REALITY AND ON PAPER THEY KNOW KENYA IS UNTOUCHABLE.AS FOR ETHIOPIA,THEY HAVE A LARGE ARMY BUT THE NUMBERS DONT WIN WAR.ISRAEL WAS OUTNUMBERED BY 45 TO 1 BUT WHOOPED THOSE ARABS SILLY.
By the way…whats up with the Elemi Triangle…who is knowledgeable to explain?
Its good that this forum has provided a chance for people to debate Kenya’s state of military defences. A lot of the people who have served in Kenya’s forces have made a commendable effort to remind us of Kenya’s professional and well equipped army. But like someone mentioned above, today’s wars are different. Professional armies are finding it very challenging to deal with today’s highly mobile fighters who can be anywhere and everywhere. Just today, I was shocked to hear that the Taliban currently control 11% of Pakistan despite the fact that the Pakistan military is one of the world’s 10 largest. Isn’t it time that Kenya military planners began preparing for the new kind of war that is emerging in the 21st century? I believe that UPDF’s experience has better prepared it for such warfare.
BUT YOU GROSSLY MISS THE POINT HERE! FIRST,WHEN THESE UGANDANS FACE KENYA ARMY THEY WILL NOT BE FACING GUMBOOT AND (VILEMBA-HEAD GOWN ) BANDITS WHO ARE ILL TRAINED AND EQUIPED.INSTEAD THEY WILL BE FACING A PROFESSIONAL ARMY WHO WILL ENGAGE THEM IN A CONVENTIONAL MANNER.TALIBAN CONTRALING PAKISTAN IS NOT A WISE ANALOGY FOR YOU TO QUOTE SINCE THE TERRITORY THEY CONTRAL THEY HAVE THE FULL SUPPORT OF THE LOCALS AND TALIBAN ARE INDEED THE LOCALS SO THIS HAS A GEO -POLITICAL SIGNIFICANCE WELL ENTRENCHED.UNLESS YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT UGANDANS WILL BECOME LOCALS ONCE THEY “INVADE” AND WILL ENJOY FULL SUPPORT OF THEMSELVES AND WHOEVER ELSE THEY OCCUPY.LAST BUT NOT LEAST,UGANDANS FIGHTING FELLOW BANDITS ACROSS THE BORDER IN CONGO ONLY EXPOSES THEIR WEAKNESSES.AN OUTFIT LIKE KONY’S SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED 20 YEARS AGO!A GOOD ARMY DOESNOT TAKE YEARS TO FIGHT A UNIT THAT HAS NO WEAPONS AND MONEY.THE PURPOTED STRENGTH OF U.P.D.F IS A MYTH AND A POLITICAL TOOL SPREAD AROUND BY THEIR KING WHO CONTRALS ALL ELEMENTS OF POLITICAL AND SOCIAL LIFE OF POOR UGANDANS.NO MAJOR MILLITARY ANALYST EVEN ACKNOLEDGES THESE FORMER REBELS AND CHILD SOLDIERS AND ITS SICKENING FOR YOU GUYS TO BE SO DEFICIENT OF MILLITARY MATTERS TO POST THIS ILL INFORMED CLIP.YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK.INFACT AND I SPEAK FROM A MILLITARY STAND POINT,EVEN ETHIOPIA WITH THEIR LARGE INFANTRY AND A COLLECTION OF SOVIET ERA WEAPONS WILL NEVER DARE KENYA.ITS LAUGHABLE IT TOOK THEM THAT LONG TO FIGHT TINY ERITREA AND EMPLOYED TRENCH WARFARE OF 1900S.CHILL, OUR DEFENCE STRATEGY IS STIPULATED BASED ON CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER AND MIGINGO IS A POLITICAL MATTER NOT A MILLITARY ONE.WHEN ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS THINKS THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ATTACK US,ILL ASSURE YOU THAT IT WILL BE BIRTH OF KENYA AS AN UNKNOWN SUPERPOWER BY ALL AFRICAN STANDARDS.WORLD BANK WILL INSURE THIS FOR YOU.
Dear Mr spartan.
I am now sure that we are dealing with emotions rather than a candid appreciation of facts. Avoid self denial and focus on issues.
As you have been told mr spartan, Kenya unlike Uganda is a free and open society.
What the two persons have written here is not secret. This is information available to all and their is no breach of secrecy in discussing the same in Kenya. Our secrets ???? ask i.s.o and e.s.o May be they will confirm to you that U.P.D.F is a rag tat army that uses gumboots and has to rob pokots their cattle for ration. If you can’t afford ration for military in peace time how will you in war time??
Kenya police has been in more peace missions including all you credit uganda police to have had a brief. Check the appropriate U.N websites. In addition it is the kenya prisons that to date is providing correctional training services in nearly all the countries you mentioned.Again check in the relevent U.N websites.
We do not contribute to this forum under pseudonyms. We are a free society and you do not have to use old technics that could be in use in Uganda to intimidate or scare us from giving our constructive/objective contributions. People in kenya do not live in fear that the goverment or some strange shadowy figure (albeit with outdated thoughts is evesdropping on their computers or telephone. Kenyan are a free people able to change democratically. How many change of goverments have you witnessed in uganda?? were they peacefull or blood full???
When did you hear our army has recieved Trucks as Donations?????
I am supprised to hear someone say that you don’t need an airforce to win a war!!!! What manner of ignorance???? Take you time and study modern Militaries and war fare. If you live in the old times as is evident of the U.P.D.F Then you don’t need an airforce. Napoleon and alexander certainly did’nt need an airforce.
My friend Spartan, get out of your flights of fantacy :- A) U.P.D.F never directly faced the angolans. They withdrew from areas where they would have had to contend with the angolan. re-study the war that toppled mobutu and you will have your facts right. The angolan army can decimate U.P.D.F in less than 7 days. It is also important for you to note that Angola did not declare a war against Uganda. all it did was to send a few of its soldiers to aid Kabila. The full might of the Angolan army and airforce was not brought to the war in D.R.C. Total angollans sent to support Kabila were less that 1000. How many U.P.D.F soldiers were in D.R.C at the beginning of the war?? check your figures MORE than 10,000 in different parts of D.R.C
B) you have admitted that the U.P.D.F CANNOT manage two wars at the same time. You attempt to explain (although falsely) why you lost a war against Rwanda!!!!!Then in your wild dreams your wild fantacies you imagine that you can open a war against a nation with an orgarnised armed forces, strong economy and a more stable political system. We feed uganda we export for uganda. wait for your petrol exports before you rebel against our dominance.
C)You call Kenya police brutal?? Read how Uganda police is rated and described by T.I as well as by other International Human rights groups??? you will feel very sad about yourself.
D)UGANDA is incapable of a real war save for military escapades with rebels in the congo and against Kony. Kenya is neither of this. By the way how many soldiers does kony have??? estimates…..less than 1000. where do they train….? they train by facing UPDF. How many rebels are you fighting in the Congo?? where do they train?? PLEASE note that none of this groups that you claim to fight Has any M.B.T , APC’s ,artillary , missiles or logistic support ,command and control, Attack hellicopters , JET fighters e.t.c. all they have are assualt riffles and a few granades. Yet they keep U.P.D.F IN TOTAL CHECK. every year uganda parliament has to budget for this little wars.
Finally let it be known that for you to fight kenya you will need many years of preparation. After all the Israelli Army that defeated arab armies had not been battle tested. read your history properly. the British army that defeated the argentines was by itself not made up of persons who had been to any war.
U.P.D.F IS not a battle hardened group but a Rag tat cattle rustling force.
I hope this will shift you into a sobber mood.
Did anybody read US specs now prefer their Pakistani comrades’ G3 7.62 over the 5.56….coz of stopping power? Hmmm! And now somebody here with old data says T-72s are obsolete…! For the benefit of all check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHWHjK2VsUo
I think a lot of people are talking a bout war it,s as if they are talking a bout going to a picnic. UGANDA AND KENYA CAN NEVER GO TO WAR –so those who are talking about wars are just cheating themselves. This situation is brought a bout by the politics of Kenya the opposition in Kenya blames M7 for supporting Kibaki. Magingo island is a simple issue that can be solved without going to war. In any event the outcome for any war would be very caterstrophic for both countries and the whole region so lets not even think a bout it. GOOD LUCK
Spartan,
I admire your patriotism, you love Uganda no doubt. Well that is very much in order. I love Kenya too just as much but i also love Uganda and East Africa in general.
Anyhow facts must be stated as they are. Uganda stands no chance in war with Kenya. Yes you may beat DRC ,Sudan ( though i doubt it ) or whoever but not Kenya. All your fuel supplies come from Kenya so how will you run your war machines if you are starved of oil?
You boast of a bigger army ( infantry ) but how is this supposed to threaten us in todays highly mechanised warfare? Kenya maintains a small highly trained, highly efficient, well financed and well equiped force. We are known to buy new equipment in the region as oppossed to
you who constantly buy surplus ex-Soviet stock ( Look at Janes defence weekly on procurement ). Look at the airforce, Kenyas is the largest and most professional in East and Central Africa ( same source ). Also look at the weaponry, who has superior?
To say that the Kenya military has no battle experience is to miss the point. Our officers are always engaged along the Kenya-Somali border where they gain the necessary battle experience.
Even if we want to increase our infantry numbers to your level we can do so very easily, afterall we have a much bigger population than you and the bigger economy to boot.
What makes you think that we cannot mobilise if need be?
This is exactly what TZ did in 1979 when they whacked your
boys or have you forgotten that you had a much larger army than them by then? Read history.
Does UG have a credible airforce? You posses a few MiG21s and MiG23s coupled with a few helicopter hinds which are so obselete that Joseph Kony using crude weapons can bring them down. Will these be brought to the Kenyan front? I pity the pilots, they have to struggle to
fly them only for them to be short down by small rifles.
What about the mobility of your soldiers? They had to march all the way from Congo forest after engaging Kony’s
boys. If they don’t have vehicles how will they retreat or move forward during the phases of battle?
Please forget war with Kenya, you simply cannot win. Remain our brothers and sisters and we can always respect you as such. Let’s use our energies for other things
like the development of the entire East Africa. In case you want to expand, look west not East or South. You tried TZ and failed so what makes you think you can succeed with Kenya whom you are so dependant upon. We need you and you need us period.
Mr Peter Okello,
You are definitely a greenhorn in matters military. As for the
passionate defense of your country from attack by ‘misguided’
Kenyan elements, i must say i like your courage and capability.
You have almost won the war on paper. Practically though, you
have scored a naught.
To say that you do not depend on fuel and that your boys can
march all the way to Mombasa only serves to expose your ignorance, what about the intense aerial bombardment that
they risk exposing themselves to? Or are you so inhuman that you don’t mind offering your people to such a massive slaughter?
You say that had the dispute been between Kenya and Tanzania or Ethiopia no Kenyan would be talking, again this exposes your phobia for the Tanzanians having been bitten once. We in Kenya do not fear the Tanzanians or any neighbour for that matter, but unlike you the Tanzanians are sober people who have no expansionist tendensies like you do. We therefore do not have issues with them nor are they a security threat to us. Ethiopia too is not a threat to us now or in the medium term. They have issues with Eritrea, Somalia and at home with the Oromos. They cannot therefore afford to open another front and risk a total humiliation even with their massive resources and personnell numbers. If you care to look at our threat matrix you will realize that we have already taken care of all that.
Reading the book ‘military spending in developing countries’ by Brian Mcdonald, you will realize that you are rated very low in our thread matrix.You will also note that
no country bordering Kenya has any capacity to wage and win a war with us. Not even Sudan with its massive upgrade of its military. How then will Uganda with its obselete weaponry stand a chance?Kenya and Ethiopia had border issues way back, but this was solved amicably
with one piece going to Ethiopia and another to Kenya. If we were to go by your argument, why then did Ethiopia not crush Kenya and take the two contested areas given their perceived military might? Think again.
Am done talking. Kenyans, just bring it on. Let’s put our money where our mouths are. Talk is cheap!
You guys suck! We should be thinking about how to advance ourselves economically, technologically, socially, academically and become major players on the international arena. Your thoughts are archaic and narrow-minded. Close this discussion and use your heads well imbeciles. Not even Stalin, Hitler, Musolini, and other historical warmongers led successful military campaigns in the long run. I beseech our Ugandan brothers to vote out that loose cannon they have for a leader.
I like the grasp of knowledge and ability to debate eloquently by some of you though, like Ole Nkarei.
interesting debate.
- Establishing air supremacy is key: Advantage, Kenya.
- Battle experience: Advantage Uganda
- Control of Supply routes: Advantage, Kenya.
- Equipment: Advantage, Kenya.
- Numbers are key for attrition tactics: Advantage, Uganda.
- Transport and communication: Advantage, Kenya.
- Intelligence: Advantage, Kenya.
etc, etc
War: Advantage, Kenya.
Spartan,
I am a Ugandan like yourself and I want to declare my total support to you for defending the republic from uncalled for attacks from misguided kenyan elements.
The Kenya army is nothing but a bunch of softies who are a very unnecessary burden to the suffering kenya tax payer. The only times they have come out to do anything remotely resembling war is when the kill civillians like the did during the 1960s-1970s while hunting the shifta bandits. In 1984 you all recall the great massacre in the NE province in Wasagalla. Over 4,000 innocent Somalis were rounded and killed. This great atrocity has never been investigated and justice is yet to be done. If ICC was existent by then a number of Kenyan leaders and military officials would be facing the fate Bashir is facing now.
Lately thousands of civilians were massacred in Mt. Elgon.
The Kenya army for all its purported strengths is just a barracks outfit being fattened like pigs in a sty. The last thing they would like, is to be called out of their enjoyment and comfort zones to come to war with Uganda or any other outfit.
The other bit I know about the kenya army is that they like and can only manage soft military operations like peace keeping. That is why they fight to be deployed in UN peacekeeping ops.
The current problem kenyans have with uganda is related to the disbelief they have that Uganda is now a much more stronger country than theirs. Most kenyans were brought up with the false belief that uganda is weak and poor and that kenya is the big brother!
if the Migingo conflict was with Tanzania or Ethiopia no Kenyan would be calling for war. But because it is with the percieved weak Uganda every coward is demanding war!
The point of strength the kenyans believe they have over uganda is that they will close the border. However this is a double edged solution that will affect Kenya as much.
In the event that the lucklustre Kenyans impose war on uganda they should be ready for total war. The UPDF does nor depend on fuel for war. it did not reach Kinshasa and Gbdolite in trucks – they walked all the way. They can also walk upto Mombasa. be warned!
I want to state categorically that all along i have been having full confidence with Kenya army in relation to their machinery. citing what happened in seara leone when they had gone for piece keeping. they were attacked and they were able to defend themselves. in around 2006 when Ethiopians invaded kenya. the move was not soft.But now the confidence is fading coz i cant imagine a helicopter being shot down by alshabbab militia on the Kenya-somali border and they quickly deny the attack.that shows how coward they are to deal with african enemies like alshabbab. i pity them. the bolstering hughees MD chopper is now scrap.
Dan,
Your fears are unfounded. The chopper in question was on a scouting/recco. mission when it met its fate either thro’ a mechanical fault or enemy fire as you put it. It was not yet in a state of a shoot out hence we have no reason to doubt the army and its equipment. If the plane was indeed brought down by enemy fire then this was simply an ambush. What is important is what the army will do about the worrying security situation at the border i.e to respond decisively and repulse those thugs deep into Somalia.
Guys. The future is one where Kenyans and Ugandans will stand together to ensure the OIL flows through to Mombasa… There’s NO WAR.
did i hear that the pokots killed 4 BATTLE HARDENED UPDF and went away with thier guns????? that the ugandans are requesting the D.C in pokot to help arrest the pokots who killed U.P.D.F SOLDIERS?????
I know pokots dont have tanks,APC, Artillary, Jet fighters, Hellicopters and many other weopon that a proffessional army keeps. I am sure Kony does not have such weopon. Rebels in DRC also do not keep such weopons. How have they managed to keep the battle hardened U.P.D.F in check????????
U.P.D.F cannot fight an orgarnised army Full stop.
The Ugandan army is not only 45000 per se, i need to remind you that most Ugandans over the age of eighteen have gone through basic military training called Muchaka muchaka. please note that over 40% of ugandans are over 18.
Kenya stands to lose economically should we go to war with Uganda over some rocky islet as they are our biggest market and we are their biggest foreign investor. So war Mongers hold your horses it aint happening.
But if it were to happen the Uganda would lose the war. A country’s military strength is not measured by the number of soldiers it has but by the amount of money it spends on its Military. Kenya spends 5 times more on its Military than Uganda and spends more than Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi Combined.
Uganda may have a battle hardened but Indisciplined UPDF but it does not have a functioning air force. Of Course they don’t need the Navy. The Most Modern MBT Tank in Uganda is T55.
UPDF may fight Joseph Kony in circles in Eastern Congo (whose military strength is slightly above the SLDF that capitulated by the Kenyan Military in three weeks) and help plunder the resources of DRC but lets face it they cannot fight a country like Rwanda leave alone Kenya. Kenya air force Inventory has 137 aircrafts Kenya Army has Battalion of 35 Helicopters. 30 F5 Fighter jets. Uganda has 34 aircrafts 15 MIGs of questionable serviceability
UPDF INVENTORY
MBT 20x T-55(T-55MV), 20x PT-76 (IISS Military Balance 2007 lists 152 T-54/55, but indicates their serviceability is in doubt).
IFVs 19x BMP-2
APCs BTR-152, Buffel
AA Guns ZPU-4
ATGMs AT-3 Sagger
2 Chubby (mine detection system)
KENYA ARMY INVENTORY
Vickers Mk3: 76
T-72AV: 110
100 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV or Humvee)
Recce: 72 x Panhard AML-60/-90, 12 x Ferret armoured car and 8 x Shorland armoured car;
APC: 85 BRM Ukraine in 2007, 35 x WZ-551, 52 x Thyssen Henschel UR-416 and 1- x Panhard M-3 (in store);
SP Artillery: 25 x 203mm 2S7 Pion ,35 x BM-21;
Towed Arty: 48x 122mm, unknown x L-5 Pack Howitzer, 40x 105mm RO L118 Light Gun., Mortars: 50 x 81mm., and 12 x 120mm.,
25 x 203mm.,
ATGW: 40 x MILAN, and 14 x Swingfire, RPG-7
RCL 84mm: 80 x Carl Gustav recoilless rifle;
AD Guns 20mm: 50 x TCM-20, and 11 x Oerlikon;
AD Guns 23mm : 70 xZPU-4
AD Guns 40mm: 13 x L/70.
AD Missiles: BUK
Small arms: G3 rifle
So brothers their will be no war between Uganda and Kenya as we are symbiotically intertwined. But if their was to be war Uganda would lose.
Who can let us know what kenya military is actually doing in somali border.
This, in simple form, is what we are doing there.
1. Robust Combat Surveillance and Interdiction to depth of the border – visual and electronic, by aggressor elements of the Military & National Civil Intelligence, Special Forces Elements of the 20 Paras, Civil Admin Policing and RDF of the AP – very good results!
2. Daily aerial Combat Sorties in-force to depth into Somalia by fullyarmed components of the 50 Air Calv.
3. Forward elements of ground troops in Active Combat Mobile Patrols (foot, vehicle,chopper borne,)deep inside Somalia.
4. Ground Attack fighter Jet sorties in expansive Combat Air patrol mode.
5. Combat Air patrols by Interceptor units of the Kenya Air Force – F5E Tiger II
6. Covert insertions of the D Coy – missions of sabotage,disruptions, disinformation, intel, take-outs, etc..
ETC…
There has been established a delineated forward line of close to 20Km depth.
We have this line as shut as anyone can with our capabilities – quite sufficient considering the capacities of the opponent across the line.
The Ugandan army is a very week poorly equiped force. it can only manage battles with rebels who have nothing more than assault riffles.
The annual budget of the kenya army is three times that of the ugandan army.
The ugandan economy cannot support an intense war exceeding a few days.
The ugandan political system is still a one man and his family autocracy.
Uganda stands no chance of winning any war against kenya. read assesments in jane defence magazine and from several international strategic institutes. the verdict is simple uganda has no chance against the kenya army.
Breaking Inelegance Reports.
Kampala top brass has just realized part of there functioning Tanks and APC are out of the country in Somali for Au duties. This has crushed a once a upon time dream of having a large military campaign towards their eastern border neighbor.
Congratulations battle harden U.P.D.F for your first baby steps toward sanity. I am still trying to imagine how U.P.D.F would have matched to Mombassa with support of 20 T-54 against our Milan Anti Tank missiles let alone the tank battalions in store for them.
we are pround to have one of the best anti tank weapon in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkzh3pEpdbo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQklKhOoe58&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb7FaW2im10&feature=related
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/africa/uganda/main_battle_tank/t-55/pictures/T-55_main_battle_tank_Uganda_Ugandan_army_001.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/africa/uganda/main_battle_tank/t-55/pictures/T-55_main_battle_tank_Uganda_Ugandan_army_18_January_2009_news_002.jpg
EVERY KENYAN NEWSPAPER SITE I’VE READ HAS THIS SPARTAN GUY MAKING ILL INFORMED AND SOMETIMES OUTRAGEOUS COMMENTS THAT ARE NEITHER TRUE NOR SENSIBLE.LET ME MAKE THE RECORD STRAIGHT.FIRST KENYA ARMY COMPRISES ABOUT 45,000 WELL TRAINED TROOPS ,7,500 PARAMILLITARY G.S.U AND 32,000 A.P POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE COMBAT TRAINED AND FIRST LINE OF DEFENCE.THEY ARE THE ONES WHO BEAT UGANDA IN 1986 SKIMISHES.EVEN YAHOO SITE ON KENYA ARMED FORCES CLARIFIES THIS.SECOND THIS IDEA THAT A SMALLER FORCE IS SYNONYMOUS WITH DEFEAT IS OUTRAGEOUS.ISRAEL WAS OUTNUMBERED BY 45 TO 1 BY ARABS. BRITAIN WAS OUTNUMBERED BY THE SAME MARGIN BY ARGENTINIANS DURING FALKAN WAR OF 1982.THIRDLY,AMIN THOUGHT HIS LARGER FORCE OF THUGS WOULD DEFEAT TANZANIAN SMALLER FORCE.NONE OF THE ACTUAL SOLDIERS IN THOSE WARS HAD BEEN IN COMBAT.THEY WERE WELL TRAINED AND DISCIPLINED NOT A CONTINUATION OF A BANDIT MILITIA LIKE THOSE IN UGANDA.THE STRATEGY OF OUR FORCES IS TO DEPLOY A SMALLER, LETHAL,MOBILE,HEAVILY EQUIPPED AND OVERWHELMING FORCE THAT WOULD DECAPITATE ANY AGGRESSOR WITHIN HOURS.NEVERTHELESS,OUR ABILITY TO MOBOLISE IS ONLY MATCHED BY ETHIOPIA IN THIS REGION.LET ME GIVE YOU A STREAIGHT MILLITARY TALK.THE ARSENAL DEPLOYED BY KENYA ARMY IS IS THE MOST LATHAL IN EASTERN AND CENTRAL AFRICA.OUR MILLITARY BUDGET IS LARGER THAN THAT OF UGANDA,TANZANIA,RWANDA AND BURUNDI COMBINED.OUR AIRFORCE IS THE LARGEST IN THE SAME REGION.KENYA NAVY SHIPS CAN HIT KAMPALA WITH A WIDE ARRAY OF MISSILES.UGANDA ARMY EQUIPMENT IS OUTDATED AND THE 5 MIGJETS LACK THE REQUIRED FIREPOWER TO MAKE AN IMPACT AGAINST 30+ F5s AND 50+ HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS.THE MIG 24 HIND HELICPTER THAT UGANDA HAS IS OF DOUBTABLE SERVICE.LITERALLY UGANDA HAS NO AIRFORCE.KENYA ARMY WEAPONS OUTGUN UGANDANS BY A MARGIN OF 20 YEARS.REAL TALK,THE DISCIPLINE AND TRAINING OF OUR FORCES HAS NO MATCH.ITS LAUGHABLE WHEN UGANDA SAYS THAT THEY RUN FROM ANGOLANS CAUSE THEY WERE OUTNUMBERED.INFACT UGANDA HAD 10,000+ SOLDIERS COMPARED TO 1,000 ANGOLANS.WHEN UGANDAS FOUGHT A REAL ARMY(RWANDAN) THEY AGAIN CLAIMED THEY WERE OUTNUMBERED.THEY HAVE FOUGHT KONY MILITIA FOR 20 YEARS AND FAILED TO WIPE THEM OUT UNLIKE KENYA ARMY WHO WIPED A MILITIA (SABOT LAND DEFENCE FORCES)OF SAME STRENGTH AS KONYS IN 72 HOURS.FIGHTING FELLOW BANDITS IS NOT AN EXPERIENCE TO BOOST OF.I HAVENT COME ACROSS A SITE THAT APPLOUDS U.P.D.F OR CLAIMS THEM BEING WELL TRAINED AND EQUIPPED.UNLESS THEY WONNA FIGHT WITH BANANA PUDDING,THEY ARE 20+ YEARS BEHIND KENYA ON ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.FINALLY,YOU HAVE QUOTED C.I.A WORLD FACT BOOK.GO BACK AND CHECK ON THE NEW ONE THEY RECENTLY POSTED AND COMPARE THE TWO COUNTRIES.EVEN WITH PETROL DOLLARS,WHICH IS LONG WAY FROM HERE,UGANDA WILL HAVE TO GROW TESTICLES OF STEEL TO BEAT KENYA.(BALLS OF STEEL).IT AINT HAPPENING.
to add on what this gentleman has said above, in 1988 NRA was put to its toes by the A.P and the G.S.U. the military was not even involved. Now that they have aquired Mig 23 from libya they thinking they can walk the walk with us. try your luck again NRA,UPDF, UDF anti-KONY brigade which ever name you go in
Guys, Lets’ forget all this chest thumping – migingo or no migingo, we are intertwined as one people of east africa and do not need warmongers like spartan and his ilk to arouse passions and unneccessary debates about who has a stronger military than the other. Someone mentioned the presence of oil reserves in east africa and esp. so confirmed in Ug – those who want to benefit from it at our expense will push for war so as to able to get to these reserves. Lets look at things beyond the mind of bully boys spoiling for a fight and seek to find ways to develop- remember the outsiders look at africans as people who do nothing for themselves except to fight wars. I dosent matter whether Kenya or Uganda has the better , newest weaponry – we are all in the end the loosers – remember Kenya and Uganda are in a lose-lose situation in wartime . lets restore SANITY!
But may I put in a closing word that should Spartan be a UPDF soldier and even better still even remotely involved in Planning or Intelligence, it is no wonder UG recent military adventures into the Congo, Sudan and against Kony have been such grotesque failures. Kenyan Soldiers have been operating deep inside UG for Decades running all manner of covert operations including mapping of all strategic Military Installations particularly those that are command and Communication in nature. When you start reading of large-scale disruptions of UPDF C & C, powers stations, broadcasting houses, etc, then as sure as the sun raises from the East, you will soon read of the MTB crossing busia full-tilt for Kampala, the Paras dropping and taking over Entebbe, large-scale air-lifts of the 3rd KAR/1stKAR into Entebbe, and the KAF ruling the Uganda Skies. Since UG has aggravated all its neighbours, not a word will be uttered either to stay this action or in defence of UG from these same neighbours. And I will be right in the thick of it, and dying to come to grips with this arrogant Spartan!! You can take this to any bank!
i wish to add on what this gentleman has said.the u.p.d.f which in essence is a political army at best and a bandit militia at worst will abandon their bandit king (mu7) and dissolve into the population.their large numbers of infantry men would have been REMOTELY AND I MEAN REMOTELY fit in world war one when large waves of infantry could be sent across the battle field.In todays warfare which is highly merchanized and technologically executed,they risk being mauled down by the kenya air calvary battalion or higly equipped 1st KAR.when this scenario plays out,we in kenya will have the kindness to employ ugandans to pick our tea and send it to kampala restaurants to be served to kenyan soldiers well entrenched in kampala.the kenya electral commision will provide logistical support for democratic elections after the dictator is gone.and dont forget to do it kenyan style.this information will get you a loan at any bank with no interest.its that worth.
The EAC countries are moving more and more towards intergration. The recent joint military exercises by the member states indicates a move towards cooperation as opposed to confrontation. This is a welcome development, there is a lot to be gained by tapping into the various synergies of the member states. Besides, shared information among partner states will go a long way in improving overall security in the region and might provide a forum to rid the region of such rag-tag militias as the LRA. This will also afford us a chance to concentrate on trouble spots such the Kenya-Somali border without having to worry about borders with partner states. I am of course assuming that calls for intergration are genuine and that leaders are truly sincere.
Dont for an instance assume that the limited “joint exercises” you have read in the papers have connotations such as those espoused by Olekoima. Far from it, there are mainly limited to functions that are in support of the civilian authorities during times of social-political crisis. So that the emphasis is on cordinating civil disasters from a military stand-point. This is driven by the inevitable momentum that the Political class has set on Integration,. Military Planning, both strategic and immediate, remains unchanged, in that our analysis continues to cover the eventuality of Hostilities from a myriad of sectors along our borders. This will not change regardless of the politically correct posturing you will witness of such joint mill\itary activities. Would you read as much as Olekoima has about the reportage of Military Games involving the five East African Countries? Please try to see beyond the painted pictures, friends!
Quite exactly Mr Ole Nkarei, what i am only saying is that cooperation of any nature postpones the likelywood of confrontations at least for now and affords us a chance to focus on other sectors together as partners. Nevertheless our armed forces must always prepare and be ready for any eventuality, after all war could erupt from least expected events as we witnessed of once bosom friends- Ethiopia and Eritrea.
Military strategic planning is not whimsical and emotional, as some of you civilian types are wont to think. That is simply being romanticised by the phantom-type feel-good one-love nonsense created by politicians essentially to give them media exposure. Military strategic planning has only one consideration and driving force, and that is National Interests. All ideals, factors, players, etc, present or future, that are in divergence to these National Interests attract our attention as possible Threat Areas, and result in the appropriate analysis of them and the development of counter-active actions on a graduated scale. Playing disaster-rescue, building bridges, or running medical camps with the Ugandan/Tanzania/Rwandese armies will not obviate this consideration, no matter the feel-good value of these activities in the press.